Not exactly, if your art assets are designed around using DX11 features then sure, but LFS has its own LOD engine so it could use tesselation if available to add detail beyond the vertices quality on things close to the camera - specifically wheels and crash helmets could use it - whilst maintaining the current behaviour under DX9.
It's not so much a case of DX incompatibility as it is a case of a games own internal architecture and media asset design.
It's not so much a case of DX incompatibility as it is a case of a games own internal architecture and media asset design.
Given that the one key difference between 9 and 11 is one LFS can benefit from, and that 11 can fall back to run on 9, there is no reason not to go to 11.
From your description I think you are better off not compiling the SDK in to your application anyway, I think when people over abstract their code too much it ends up bloated and often the team behind it are no longer capable of understanding what they system does anymore.
I have not looked at the Rift SDK - their site appeared to need a login and the effort involved in that exceeded my willingness to look but by what you say it sounds like they are using an MVC architecture - which is actually quite a nice way to work for modular and re-usable systems, but not very LFS'y.
It sounds like they envision the Occulus SDK will somehow form the foundation of a gaming project. If they believe that then they have lost sight of what their project is (cheesy pun intended) and/or have never actually written a game themselves.
This doesn't help however, but I think Ben might. Compiling a .dll with a few exposed functions is easy for any of us but I think he's a Visual Studio user with lots of experience in related areas and I'm pretty sure he's down with MVC architecture too, so he can probably knock you up what you need pretty easily. Visual Studio and me don't see eye to eye (cheesy pun intended) so I would probably struggle myself.
EDIT: Regarding your earlier question about differences between DX9 and DX11. The only real substantive feature difference that I can see in DX11 is Tessellation, it's a bells and whistles thing you can throw on top if present and the rest is just DX9. I'm using a DX11 engine myself but it drops to DX9 seamlessly, although I haven't actually played with the tessellation yet (I mostly code DX stuff on a Win7 machine). There's also some shader enhancements, the ability to run shaders on streaming video and something to do with shadows that I don't understand. It should be okay to migrate LFS to DX11 and use tessellation, but still run as DX9 on older OS' without it. Just be careful to test under DX9 when you start writing shaders.
EDIT 2: Oh here's a reason for DX11 in LFS. Rendering wheels with PN-Triangles would eliminate the polygonal artifact and give us properly round wheels so they no longer look like Captain Caveman drew them
but under DX9 they would look as they do now, as tessellation is simply off.
Last edited by Becky Rose, .
I work on Windows 8.1 at work with 3 screens. Well I used to have 3 screens but since Windows 8.1 I am down to 2 because the drivers for the third screen haven't been updated yet - and it's driving me crazy! On top of the lost screen the fact remains that the Metro interface whilst is lovely on my touch screen is a multi-screen disaster in so many ways. Add that to pop up side panels that trap the mouse on the screen on top of the plethora of little things wrong with it and Windows 8.1 is a productivity disaster. I am still tweaking settings (it seems it is possible to get rid of the side of screen popups that trap the mouse) and stuff but overall I would say stay off Windows 8 for productivity work, it still isn't right.
Not sure why you are neading to compile the Rift code, surely using a .dll as densohax suggested is the right approach anyway - to isolate the third party stuff?
I've not read up on the Occulus Rift at all or what the API does but mixing languages or even 3D engines isn't terribly difficult within the same project. Even I can do that stuff and I am a coding novice compared to you so I imagine the reticence is more about getting it to work on your dev machine without messing up your dev machine right?
If so, then what about using a vmware install for VC12 - make a .dll for the Rift calls you need, then back to VC6 goodness for physics awesomeness?
The stock market (and particularly hedge funds) is the mechanism by which the super wealthy fleece the wealthy.
There is money to be made but it is high risk.
There is money to be made but it is high risk.
I find the scammer comment amusing (and somewhat misguided). Scawen is the most inept businessman I've ever come across - he's basically an outright communist. Despite how bright he is I don't think he'd be able to figure out how to do a scam, and if he did he'd find a way of not making any money out of it.
I just found a seventh LFS Kart Meet trophy hiding behind another one...
I'm not light, I'm not even fit anymore. I'm a middle aged former junkie who drinks, smokes too much and never exercises. I've put on a bit of weight since we met too.
But my point is, whatever advantage you perceive me to have - I am simply supplying proof against the point that women can't race by highlighting that out of the races held amongst members of this very forum - it's a woman who's won the most trophies.
Just one note on speed cameras.
Most of our cameras are placed just after a change in pitch/elevation on the road: ie: just after the crest of a hill or after the base of one.
Elevation changes on the road tend to result in drivers having to adjust their throttle/speed - and for a long time the police who placed the cameras where paid directly out of the fines and they realised that putting cameras where drivers are momentarily in a period of speed adjustment could earn them more money.
The police are no longer paid directly from the fines, but many of the cameras are still positioned at those places.
Most of our cameras are placed just after a change in pitch/elevation on the road: ie: just after the crest of a hill or after the base of one.
Elevation changes on the road tend to result in drivers having to adjust their throttle/speed - and for a long time the police who placed the cameras where paid directly out of the fines and they realised that putting cameras where drivers are momentarily in a period of speed adjustment could earn them more money.
The police are no longer paid directly from the fines, but many of the cameras are still positioned at those places.
And the driver with the most trophies from LFS kart meets (6 in total) is ... Me.
Bitches rule.
Bitches rule.
I prefer to work with what's available now. For instance I bought my telly about 2 years ago for £600. Now you can better 3D tellies for half the price, and sure eventually the occulus will come out and be cheaper with whatever pitfalls it has and on the horizon will be something better.
Technology always gets better and always gets cheaper. I remember a PC costing the best part of £2000. Nowadays you can even get a high end Mac for that money and they're more overpriced than a solicitor with a government contract.
Meanwhile I've been enjoying the 3D shower scene in Resident Evil for the best part of 2 years now. And the Occulus Rift isn't going to improve that!
Next year some other gimmick will be the next Ouya or Rasberry Pi, but right now, 3D is still pretty cool.
Technology always gets better and always gets cheaper. I remember a PC costing the best part of £2000. Nowadays you can even get a high end Mac for that money and they're more overpriced than a solicitor with a government contract.
Meanwhile I've been enjoying the 3D shower scene in Resident Evil for the best part of 2 years now. And the Occulus Rift isn't going to improve that!
Next year some other gimmick will be the next Ouya or Rasberry Pi, but right now, 3D is still pretty cool.
If gaming, or LFS, is someones hobby and they've money to invest in their hobby - then why ever not? I spend a small fortune on my own past times. LFS isn't really one of them at the moment but it has been a keen interest in the past.
The only down side is that a large TV screen usually finds its way to the lounge, and steering wheels don't attach to coffee tables terribly well.
But action films are jolly entertaining in 3D. Not all of them granted and 3D does suck for RomComs, but add LFS to the mix and the only objection anyone should have to buying one is whether there is the available cash, and whether you can clear the other half out of the lounge long enough to get the steering wheel out before her lack of soap operas drivers her crazy.
Did I read somewhere that you don't have a 3D device to see this for yourself Scawen?
I'm moving house anyway so you could borrow my telly for a month or so if you wanted to test and have space for a 42" screen. That saves me finding a way of getting it on a lorry without it breaking.
I'm moving house anyway so you could borrow my telly for a month or so if you wanted to test and have space for a 42" screen. That saves me finding a way of getting it on a lorry without it breaking.
I could lap your sorry excuse for genetics...
Firstly it's cultural, women are continuously told to look pretty and prepare to be a mother. Assume we rebel against that and insist on cultural freedom the next barrier is wealth inequality.
Bearing in mind that motor sport is a past time for the wealthy, there are 10x the number of super wealthy men then the are women, 3 times the number of upper middle earners, and even in the middle men earn around 20% more.
The reason women don't do well in racing isn't anything related to the sport itself, it's cultural and economic.
I just went back and looked and you are right. Sadly at the time I bought my current PC the game had just been released and the 3DTV Play web page list of games was promoting the game above the fold as a highlighted product that gave a good demonstration of what the system was capable of.
Damn the capitalist system!
One thing that is a bit difficult for me is the vibration when going over a rumble strip, it helped when I lowered the AA+AF enough to get 90fps whereas with max settings I was running around previously only gave me 45 on the grid to 60 on the open road, but even at 90fps the screen shake was a little uncomfortable comfortable and I really couldn't see much.
This is probably because the eyes aren't updating what's onscreen at the same time.
A way to reduce the amount of shake would be nice.
This is probably because the eyes aren't updating what's onscreen at the same time.
A way to reduce the amount of shake would be nice.
The 3D worked, it was just utterly dissappointing *shrug*
Anyway LFS didn't have those issues, and even if there is a patch for the nVidia 3DTV it makes no odds to me because my trial expired and I am not shelling out for something that didn't work very well.
Well that answers the question I had of what will she do next.
I don't know what an EDID overide is, but I figured the problem with Assassins Creed III was that the shadows where done under deferred rendering and had no z-depth. The sad part is that Assassins Creed III was billed as the top supported 3D game for 3DTV at the time I tried it, it even came bundled with the 3D graphics card.
With the LFS approach of rendering two distinct viewports this problem is eradicated completely, which is good because it gives 3D support to more people regardless of the issue I had with nVidia's effort.
Given that I intend to do a similar 3D integration in my own game project I'm very interested in what you are doing here, so I've gone and re-installed LFS to try it out!
I'm using a Tesco own brand 3D telly (Technika) which is great as a 3D telly but didn't work terribly well with nVidia 3DTV play, I tried it with Assassins Creed III and found that areas of high contrast appeared at different depths, which caused terrible trouble for my eyes when anywhere near a shadow.
I'm one of these people who does ocassionally suffer a cross-eyed sensation with 3D, especially when things come out of the screen toward me.
(on a side note, the telly doesn't support watching copyright protected media content off a PC either - gotta love how legit users suffer...).
So firing up the LFS native side by side 3D support I was pleased to be able to very quickly get a 3D setting that I found comfortable. I had a good sensation of depth and didn't get the cross eyed feeling at all.
Admittedly part of that might be because of LFS' fairly midday look and feel, there isn't much in the way of areas of high contrast so I tried South City Town in the evening which has a lot more shadows. I experienced no depth perception problems at all.
For my next test I switched to top and bottom 3D and the difference was stunning, I had a much better and more defined perception of distance. The side by side 3D seemed more flat by comparison to the top to bottom.
The road surface at South City with it's painted lines quickly compelled me to ramp up the mip mapping to maximum. I don't know if I lost my maxxed out AA + AF or something, but after this change it felt almost jaw dropping.
As someone who enjoys 3D films, but hasn't really played much in the way of 3D games because of the failure of my trial period of 3DTV being such a disappointment, I have to say I was thoroughly impressed with LFS' 3D support and how it circumnavigated the need for that overpriced nVidia program that doesn't even work properly!
Like all things LFS, that which is done is done very well indeed.
Now you just need to get a mountain bike in as a car option and I'm sure you'll be motivated to get that physics update out in no time :P
I'm using a Tesco own brand 3D telly (Technika) which is great as a 3D telly but didn't work terribly well with nVidia 3DTV play, I tried it with Assassins Creed III and found that areas of high contrast appeared at different depths, which caused terrible trouble for my eyes when anywhere near a shadow.
I'm one of these people who does ocassionally suffer a cross-eyed sensation with 3D, especially when things come out of the screen toward me.
(on a side note, the telly doesn't support watching copyright protected media content off a PC either - gotta love how legit users suffer...).
So firing up the LFS native side by side 3D support I was pleased to be able to very quickly get a 3D setting that I found comfortable. I had a good sensation of depth and didn't get the cross eyed feeling at all.
Admittedly part of that might be because of LFS' fairly midday look and feel, there isn't much in the way of areas of high contrast so I tried South City Town in the evening which has a lot more shadows. I experienced no depth perception problems at all.
For my next test I switched to top and bottom 3D and the difference was stunning, I had a much better and more defined perception of distance. The side by side 3D seemed more flat by comparison to the top to bottom.
The road surface at South City with it's painted lines quickly compelled me to ramp up the mip mapping to maximum. I don't know if I lost my maxxed out AA + AF or something, but after this change it felt almost jaw dropping.
As someone who enjoys 3D films, but hasn't really played much in the way of 3D games because of the failure of my trial period of 3DTV being such a disappointment, I have to say I was thoroughly impressed with LFS' 3D support and how it circumnavigated the need for that overpriced nVidia program that doesn't even work properly!
Like all things LFS, that which is done is done very well indeed.
Now you just need to get a mountain bike in as a car option and I'm sure you'll be motivated to get that physics update out in no time :P
Last edited by Becky Rose, .
DX does a lot more than OpenGL. You can wave goodbye to force feedback for a start. That means no more driving sims worth playing... Especially with Steam encouraging the use of game pad style controllers.
Good luck doing that in my house, the walls are 2ft thick! The downside of living in a 17th century cottage :/. I guess I could put a repeater in, although I am not sure browsing Facebook on the toilet warrants that level of investment
2 PC's for 1 player to play a single game?
The world has gone mad. Totally and utterly and completely insane.
It would be a stupid waste of electricity, and you deserve the extra bill just for wasting the planets resources if you think it's anything but ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong, I've been running 2 PC's most of the night: One streaming television whilst coding on the other.
But if I was to run your model it would have been 4 PC's: One to stream television off the internet and another streaming the television to my TV whilst another PC compiled my game which I viewed on a fourth... Heck, why not type the code on a 5th machine and compile over the network too... Whilst we're at it, I'm sure I could fire another PC or two up for some background music, and maybe a few more to control the volume balance.
We may aswell never have invented multi-tasking.
Linux based? No DirectX.
It won't support a lot of existing games so doesn't that defeat the purpose of a game based OS?
I can't see it taking hold in the market place.
It won't support a lot of existing games so doesn't that defeat the purpose of a game based OS?
I can't see it taking hold in the market place.
The reality is that the intention to finish LFS is still there, but the motivation isn't.
This is why we're in this strange juxta-like void between the reality of the situation and the theoretical.
Measured on the grief scale: Scawen has passed through reasoning and anger and is now in denial.
Acceptance cannot be far off.
This is why we're in this strange juxta-like void between the reality of the situation and the theoretical.
Measured on the grief scale: Scawen has passed through reasoning and anger and is now in denial.
Acceptance cannot be far off.
Indeed. On further reading it does appear there are tests we can do with the material found which may provenance the claim. I'll await those results with interest.
/Space Monkey out
/Space Monkey out
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG